Is this a career killer?

Comment

Comment by D. Wakefield - Berry College, GA on May 13, 2010 at 12:49pm

Online is the wave of the future, like social networking and political correctness. All claim to improve simpler and, perhaps, more personal interactions among teachers and students, friends, and colleagues. There's good to be had in the future wave, but not everyone wants to go there and mergers are not very effective.

Our brick-and-mortor institution (with 26000 acres of land) might go the way of traditional churches and community schools...if it weren't for our alumni who value their time with us on campus as lifechanging.

Best of luck to all in the online world--I don't think we are actually doing the same thing at all. We're different because we are...

Comment by Steve Van Oostenbrugge on May 10, 2010 at 1:15pm

For someone who did not see the Frontline news bit that many of you referred to, AND as someone who currently works for a not-for-profit institution, I'm actually quite surprised at the positions many of you have taken against for-profit institutions and the validity (or lack thereof) of on-line education. As someone who entered college very late in life, my entire college career revolved around evening and on-line classes since 'traditional' academia refused to see market demands of adult learners (that is certainly changing now, but not then...). As one who has also worked many years in many capacities in corporate America, having this experience in a 'real-world' context has also provided a much requested value and perspective into my classroom, regardless of the classroom being non or for-profit. On that note, as someone who is now in a not-for-profit institution, anyone who tries to convince me that this type of institution doesn't work toward a bottom line (just like their for-profit cousins) is certainly unaware of the true nature of this or any educational business, yes... that is what it is... a business.

OK... back to the original question. I DO agree with many comments here in that moving into an on-line career versus traditional is dependent on many things not the least of which should be your intent to pursue or accept the position. Do you prefer to stay at home? Are you more comfortable handling student interactions via email versus face-to-face office hours? Are you wishing to pad your CV with another prestigious institution? Is the on-line institution a reputable organization? I would hope that these and many other questions should be the deal-maker or breaker dependent on you, not someone else's idea of what the value of traditional versus non-traditional learning is or should be.

Comment by Herbert Sennett, Ph.D. on May 7, 2010 at 9:43am

RE: Professor Wallace. That is an excellent point and worthy of note. I have served on several search committees that considered but ultimately dismissed persons with for-profit college experience and degrees.
But, RE: Dr. McCarren. I personally don't put a lot of stock in anything on Frontline. Their only interest is getting viewers which leads to ... profits????? Even not-for-profit companies ultimately look at the bottom line. If Frontline had no viewers, it would no longer be on the air.
In reality, administrators at for profit institutions are directly answerable to stockholders. You are right about that. But most not-for-profit institutions have administrators who are beholden to the students???? Give me a break. I have worked full-time for three not-for-profit, brick-and-morter colleges (and am working part-time for two) and have found nearly every administrator (including myself as an interim dean) beholden to doing what is best for themselves or to make their immediate superior happy (which is usually more important).
The students?? Well, they are "customers", as I have heard them referred to on many occasions, not really students. Perhaps I have finally left the "ivory towers" for good and have started living in the real world.
BTW: I have loved this discussion! Very stiumlating. Kudos to Prof. Reynolds for starting it!! Oh, and my advice (for what it's worth) is the same as Prof. Siegfried: stay where you are. You'll have a much better chance to move to a dean's position in the near future, if that's what you want.

Comment by Peter G. Wallace on May 6, 2010 at 11:59am

I have run at search at our small college for a Provost. We had the assistance of a consulting firm. There were a few candidates with career tracks that had led them to work at for-profit schools, and my colleagues discounted them, because their experience _as administrators_ was "foreign" to how we operated and what we needed. I don't see that teaching at a for-profit is as alien as administering programs at one.

Comment by Steve Wyre on May 6, 2010 at 8:33am

When considering the Fontline piece, it is important to point out that not all for-profits are the same just as not all not-for profits are the same. There are a number of choices, some are better than others. I suggest looking at accreditations and affiliations. See who is in good standing and who is not. In my tenure I have seen more than enough individuals from not-for profit schools who I could not use because their institutions have lost their accreditation.
Job security is important, but not as much as academic integrity.

Comment by Ann Turoczy on May 6, 2010 at 8:01am

I am saddened by some of the comments regarding "for profit" educational institutes. Let's not be so naive to think that our brick and mortar schools aren't bringing in "profits", or exist for the "good" of other entities, and that their purpose is primarily for the benefit of the student. Both brick and mortar as well as "for profit" colleges have there pro's and there con's - just as the professionals who work in them. I certainly hope to be judged on the good work that I do and not where I earned my degrees. The end goal is the same- to educate the people of our country in a time when education is no longer an option but a requirement.

Comment by Karen B. McCarron, Ph.D. on May 5, 2010 at 9:56pm

Didn't you watch last night's Frontline about for profit colleges? It's not so much teaching online that is objectionable; it is the fact that for profit colleges exist for the good of the stockholders while not for profit colleges exist for the students. Where do you prefer to teach?

Comment by Michael Reynolds on May 5, 2010 at 8:35pm

Thanks everyone for the comments. Many of you had perspectives that I had not fully thought out.

Comment by Herbert Sennett, Ph.D. on May 5, 2010 at 4:11pm

So, here's two more cents: I've never made the move that you are asking about, but I have moved out of academia and then back in and no difficulty at all. I even moved from full time to part time (I'll bet many of you are shocked to hear that one) and absolutely love it. I applied for a full time position a couple of years ago and was offered the job but decided not to take it. Personally, I believe you need to do what you believe will be good for you at the time. I'm nearing retirement and have not regretted a single decision I've made. Some decisions did not turn out so well and others turned out beautifully (like asking my wife to marry me 43 years ago!!). Remember that every search committee will have its own biases and personality. Where you'd look terrific to one, another might think you're just not right. If you want to be an administrator, be one. If you are having doubts, then don't. It really isn't complicated at all. Oh, and good luck to you!!

Comment by Steve Wyre on May 5, 2010 at 3:05pm

I taught at a community college in Texas before joining a for-profit institution. I have been teaching for them almost 10 years and working full-time for them about 7. I have experience teaching for this institution both online and on ground, though my position is with a ground campus in Academic Affairs.

First, it is not a career killer as several of my colleagues have chosen to go back to the not-for profit sector for various reasons and none were hindered by their time with my University. Most of my colleagues are thrilled to be here and are often shocked at the stories of academic politics, back-stabbing, and nonsense they have to endure at not-for-profit schools. There is none of that here.

Academically, when I compare my Bachelor's degree graduates with some of the folk who show up to enter our MBA progam possessing degrees from not-for-profit schools, well, it is just more evidence that academic rigor and integrity can be successfully maintained at for-profit schools.

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